hello would love to get my infos corrected

[alternateprism]

hi amp community! just a quick intro: i am jason corder from denver, colorado usa. i produce music for the past 20 years under various aliases such as offthesky (www.offthesky.com) and now am an audio director and composer of video game music (dire wolf digital here in denver).

anyway, years ago i recovered off a bunch of 3.5" discs my dad kept, a whole bunch of mtm, mod and s3m files i created when i was 14,15 years old under the alias 'alternate prism'. i remember being on a bbs (at a friends house since my parents wouldn't allow this) and having a convo with someone (i of course had no idea who they really were) about making mod music. i sent them a file or two. they said they really liked those and then they asked if i wanted to submit some more pieces for possibly a demo or something. i was in love with demos, future crew etc... s i did. i never heard back from that person and never knew if the songs ever made it onto any demo. being in highschool and aloof, i never thought to pursue.

fast forward 27 years, im reading a facebook post by alexander zolotov(sunvox) with some of his first tracker pieces and i get a wild hair and google to find the name 'alternate prism' under your site with the name 'j. rothman' associated to the handle. i have no idea who j.rothman is although my first name is 'jason' so perhaps i gave an alternate "real name" on the bbs back then? i can't remember.

i found the demo group you have associated with 'alternate prism' - Epinicion - with a couple demo's up at archive.org. i didn't find any of my ancient songs within those 2 demos there but the 1995 one, "otherness" has 'alternate prism' listed under the Epinicion group artist roster with the email address: [email protected]. that email is of course definitely defunct so i cant reach whoever j rothman is (if that is, in fact, a real person). it's interesting to note: i grew up and created those songs in lexington, kentucky and anderson university is in indiana which is only 3 hours drive from lexington. i didn't go to college at anderson university, but down in florida. 

anyway i have all the mtm files you have listed under alternate prism, in the ALLMODS_2019-135062.xlsx file. i have a whole bunch more alternate prism files as well and, even though i think the songs are hilarious (like watching those old vhs videos you made w your friends in middleschoole), id love to, for posterity sake, upload at least the ones listed in the all mods xls, if not all the other finished ones.

also im curious what it would take to get the real name for 'alternate prism' on your site updated to 'jason corder'? the country of course is usa.

thanks in advance and look forward to your thoughts!

[Axxy]

Hi and welcome to AMP.

I have a few .mtm mods under that alias from way back in 1994. All but one of them have that same email address in them. Maybe, someone with you at university used their uni email address for spreading/contact about your mods or you used some one else's email account for contact purposes? (it's nearly 30 years ago  ).  Where I got those mods from I have no idea as I added them to my collection in 2014.

For Uploads, see top of AMP main page for instructions about adding them via ftp. I recently enjoyed listening to those that I have, so look forward to hearing some more!

I'm sure Asle will respond shortly...

[Asle]

Hi Jason,

 First of all, sorry for this delayed answer.

 Several remarks about your statement.
- You are obiously refering to : https://amp.dascene.net/detail.php?view=8502. If not, please give me a link. This is an entry with a valid background : you noted it yourself from some an Epinicion source.
- ALLMODS_2019-135062.xlsx is not our listing but Axxy's
- The "alternate prism" you are refering to has no music linked !
- I can create a dedicated entry to you with the credentials you listed. I would rather do it with music material attached

Cheers
Sylvain

[Axxy]

Hi Asle

Didn't notice he used my list, as AMP doesn't have any of those mods.

That list is a bit out of date now and I recently(ish) uploaded a newer version, obviously that didn't get updated but I'm currently sitting at well over 157,000 now with many 100s more to be added in the coming weeks.

[Asle]

I want to add some more view in this. There's yet another "Alternate Prism" online (search for ex-handle):
https://amp.dascene.net/detail.php?detail=modules&view=3555
I would bet the two we store are the same.

@Axxy, By all means, send over the updated list. I might indeed have overlooked one in the past. Sorry about that.

[Axxy]

Wow!

Seems that my Alternate Prism modules are what you have under Island of Reil as well. Had no idea they might be the same person?? Both in same group and American so possibly are.

I have a further 2 other modules under Alternate Prism handle.

Eternal Friend.mtm is under Maelcum handle even though no credit to Maelcum on AMP.
@@@@Fantasia Red.mtm credited to Alternate Prism but not on AMP

I suppose we need a reply from alternateprism to sort out some issues. 

[alternateprism]

nice to meet both you axxy and asle! firstly, thank you for the responses and further sleuthing here + being great stewards for this scene. seems there's a lot of new angles to this case now ;]

I have a few .mtm mods under that alias from way back in 1994. all but one of them have that same email address in them. Maybe, someone with you at university used their uni email address for spreading/contact about your mods or you used some one else's email account for contact purposes? (it's nearly 30 years ago  ).  Where I got those mods from I have no idea as I added them to my collection in 2014.

after texting my old best friend (who's house i always used the dialup at), he has confirmed we were in fact borrowing the bbs account from his older friend at his high school: jeff rothman. my best friend is going to try and reach out to jeff (who's changed his name at some point to geoff) to see if he can get more details for us here. like, did jeff 'broker' and send my songs to someone at epinicion? this could be a possibility as i can say without a doubt, back then, i was obsessed w purple motion/future crew (who wasn't?) and really wanted to contribute to being a part of some crew in any way.

or was jeff simply using my songs to get a lot of bbs credits in order for him to be able to download more stuff? if i remember correctly back then you could get a lot of dl credits by uploading original ascii art and music, at least at the bbs we were using. and i remember jeff supplying my best friend and i with games. i believe he is the one who gave me scream tracker.  i have a vague recollection of him asking me to create songs to upload for more credits,

i guess its also possible that i gave the songs to someone at epinicion while logged onto jeff's bbs, and whoever i gave my songs to, they got the email address somehow from asking jeff while he was using his account separately at a different time.

but i can say for a fact that i never put my email address in the notes of any of my songs because i did not at all have an email address back then. i was too young and again not allowed to have any form of internet at the house. so somebody definitely edited my songs after the fact and added an email address into them.

You cannot view this attachment.

note: the below info panel in the above screenshot is from mine (no email address listed), top info is from the version i downloaded from the amp page just now.

you mention 'eternal friend' being associated with the artist "Maelcum" - i have no idea who that is. i see in the linter notes for "ETERNAL.MTM"(see my file list image below) it says the song was made for the "Altered Spectrum music compo. 1994". alternate prism's name is definitely in the info on that file. i do remember talking to one person on the bbs who asked for a song for a compo. perhaps that was maelcum? i don't know. regardless i can say for a fact that maelcum had nothing to do with composing eternal friend.

im curious - do you have a date/time last altered for those files? im wondering if i can show that mine are the oldest (minus the emails), if that would show that i have the originals here.

god i wish i could have, at 15, ever guessed that this kind of thing would have gone down. i would have definitely put a morse code pulse watermark or something in the sub frequencies of the samples. i had goldwave back then and it definitely had the capability...

Hi Jason,

 First of all, sorry for this delayed answer.

 Several remarks about your statement.
- You are obiously refering to : https://amp.dascene.net/detail.php?view=8502. If not, please give me a link. This is an entry with a valid background : you noted it yourself from some an Epinicion source.
- ALLMODS_2019-135062.xlsx is not our listing but Axxy's
- The "alternate prism" you are refering to has no music linked !
- I can create a dedicated entry to you with the credentials you listed. I would rather do it with music material attached

Cheers
Sylvain

yes i was referring to https://amp.dascene.net/detail.php?view=8502 but now that you've mentioned the 2nd 'island of reil' link with actual song files, it's interesting to point out a few things:

i did not make the songs afrochip!, cadencia, dac'95, or samba. if you examine the infos for those 4, versus the rest (mine), you will notice quite a disparity in formatting. my formatting was always really clean/organized. the 4 tracks that are not mine, their formatting is quite chaotic. if you want, i can show you screenshots from many many other mtm files i made - date stamped from '94-95, who's infos are formatted in the exact same way as my 8 ones are at that 'island of reil' page.

also i think the songs with alternate prism in the infos, versus the island of reil ones - there's a difference in style of composition as well if you examine closely.

i guess the only connection i can find between the 2 links is the mention of "j rothman" who we now know is jeff(no geoff) rothman, who's bbs account we were borrowing at my bf's house.

here's his facebook page

but the photo at that island of reil page is definitely not of jeff(geoff) rothman.  i checked jeff's fb page and also sent the photo to my best friend who confirmed that it's definitely not jeff.

also interesting to note about the email addresses in all these files: there are at least 3 different 'roth' based email addresses sprinkled throughout this thing:

jr[email protected] that i found in an epinicion demo at archive.org - if you visit jeff's facebook page, you will see that he did in fact study at anderson university indiana

[email protected] (found in the 8 alternate prism songs on the island of reil page that i actually composed) lex.ky.edu jeff also attended university of kentucky, that i think that email address might have been associated with

[email protected] found in cadencia.s3m. it's interesting to note that csusm.edu = california and in the samba.s3m, island of reil mentions in the notes of being from california. i can't however on rothman's facebook page find any mention of california.

maybe i just uncovered a clerical error that island of reil is not related at all to alternate prism. except for the fact that both island of reil and alternate prism have some music that made it onto some epinicion compos/demos (even though i don't see epinicion mentioned under island of reil's 'was a member of' section)

anyway, you mentioned creating a dedicated entry for me: i'd certainly love a page where i can upload all the old songs i made back then. some odd 55+(below image)

however id love to get the 8 songs that i don't think belong on "island of reil's" amp page removed from there. and better yet, somehow get rothman removed from alternate prism as he did not create those 8 songs you have up at the island of reil page.

i guess im curious what more we might need here to prove that i am the original creator of those songs, not rothman? perhaps a deeper examination of the many other alternate prism songs i made back then that only i have? would date time stamps be enough here? i dunno just thinking out loud there. i guess we can also wait to see if jeff(geoff) rothman responds to my best friend and what he might remember or have to say.

anyway, not sure what we need here but im totally open to your thoughts, ideas, opinions here.

fwiw, the below is an image of all the song files i made back in 94,95(date stamped). the folder on the right you will find all the songs (and then some) that are up on the island of reil page.

sorry for all the long windedness - just trying to do as much due diligence here as i can. thanks again both of you for taking the time to hear me out here and for your thoughts, direction. hopefully get this sorted out...

[Axxy]

Hi

I think that Maelcum being credited as author is just a genuine mistake. Also, he was quite prolific in the mod scene back in the day. https://amp.dascene.net/detail.php?view=4487 along with many other well known tracker musicians in Epinicion. I find these types of mistakes in my list all the time, even after nearly 30 years, it's an on-going battle.

Most of your mods will have a datestamp of when I found them, all from 2014, just no idea where I downloaded them from tbh.

I think that the 4 mods by Island of Reil are his, that's how I have them credited and 2 have been on my hard drive 11 years and 2 for 28 years, while all the others I have are under your handle.

I'm happy to keep what ones I have credited as they are but I can't speak for AMP but I usually go by what happens here unless otherwise proven. I mean, it's not like the 2x Timelord issue.

[alternateprism]

@@@@Fantasia Red.mtm credited to Alternate Prism but not on AMP

i'm curious if the version of fantasia red you have - what the info section says?

i just checked my file "FANTASIA.MTM" from sept 16, 1994 and it actually has my name and old address/phone number, the house i grew up in. with alternate prism at the top. and it mentions that i don't have an email address. honestly, not sure what the hell i was thinking in putting all that info in there but i think it's safe to say i (along with most of us back then) had no idea what the term internet predator even meant.

so hopefully this helps get us closer to clearing things up here?


You cannot view this attachment.

[Axxy]

My copies of all your mods have the same datestamp 18/10/2014 22:05, which kind of suggests that possibly I ripped them all at the same time from some production, i.e. a musicdisk or something. Attached in the details of the one I have.

[alternateprism]

My copies of all your mods have the same datestamp 18/10/2014 22:05, which kind of suggests that possibly I ripped them all at the same time from some production, i.e. a musicdisk or something. Attached in the details of the one I have.

gotcha, that makes sense. so yours does not have my highschool address, but rather has the rothman email. id be curious if anybody tried to alter the music itself or if that is exactly as i have it in these files i have that are untouched since 94,95. any chance you could post a wetransfer link to a zip of all the alternate prism tracks you have?

perhaps someone from epinicion possibly added the addresses some time later just to help link it to the crew? do you know if that sort of doing is common?  im quite in the dark on most demo scene political behaviors.

curious on asle's thoughts w all this info as well

[Axxy]

All those mods are attached to this post...

I think I might have ripped these from some MD-Dos musicdisk tbh. The ripping program I use tends to save all files in the .exe or a .dat file like that.

It's strange, if this was someone passing off your mods as there own, weird they only add the lunatix email address and use your nickname, but unfortunately it's probably not the first time that's been done. Let us know if these mods are the same as your versions and not someone using your mod & samples to make a different tune? and leave no credit in the mod for reference, also quite common as well.

I'd doubt Epinicion would change the credits unless they made the mistake of mis-crediting them for whatever reasons, but I doubt deliberately.

It's a weird one for sure!

[Axxy]

OK, just had a poke around Modland and found the same .mtm files there and they were added in 2005 possibly.

[alternateprism]

All those mods are attached to this post...

thank you for attaching those! your 2014 ones are, byte for byte(winmerge), exactly as the ones at modland and here at amp. your eternal/fantasia are exact to modland. i did find that across all versions: diamond eyes.mtm is exact to my original: does not have any rothman contact inside.

It's strange, if this was someone passing off your mods as there own, weird they only add the lunatix email address and use your nickname

yep it's odd. my experience with this kind of thing, they at least change the artist name and or song title. my theory is that since i was using rothman's bbs account, they-whoever grabbed the emails from there. them removing my home address from fantasia red replacing w the rothman email, that makes sense i was a pretty naive kid to have put a home address in there. still, diamond eyes does not have any contact whatsoever.. maybe whoever was trying to link these mtms to epinicion w rothman's email, way back whenever, was just in a hurry.

hoping to hear back from rothman at some point... looking at his fb page: happy marriage w 2 kids, super christian, project manager job, doesn't appear to do anything w music... hunch he'll most likely tell me he had nothing to do w composing these songs or have anything to do w alternate prism.

[Axxy]

thank you for attaching those! your 2014 ones are, byte for byte(winmerge), exactly as the ones at modland and here at amp. your eternal/fantasia are exact to modland. i did find that across all versions: diamond eyes.mtm is exact to my original: does not have any rothman contact inside.

That might be because back in 2004 or 2005 I sent 4xDVDs to Coma containing well over 80000 mods for Modland. You can usually tell which ones are probably added by me, renamed filenames...  Maybe I did send them, but for some reason I must have downloaded them again, maybe one of those moments where I deleted some stuff by mistake or something.