Amiga Music Preservation - Forum

Amiga Music => Music database => Topic started by: Anarkhya on September 10, 2012, 10:02:31

Title: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Anarkhya on September 10, 2012, 10:02:31
Hi,

Just look at mod.hi-score and mod.benefactor8 both by Blaizer..
(is there any dedicated topic I missed for dupes busting?)
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Asle on September 10, 2012, 18:43:54
dupe indeed. trashed the 'hi-score' one.

There no topic dedicated to dupes, so, why not stick to this one :).

Oh, and thanks !

Sylvain
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: swirlythingy on September 11, 2012, 00:07:17
Well, since we have a sticky topic now...

I propose this convention:

"foo" = "bar": The songs are identical; "foo" seems to be the original
"foo" ~ "bar": One song is a slightly modified version of the other
"foo" > "bar": "bar" is just "foo" with some bits missing

These ones are just on Spaceman's page:

chuck2(endgame) = googoo gaga (strangely, these seem to be the wrong way round somehow?  "chuck2(endgame)" contains the text "goo goo gaa gaa !!!!!" and "googoo gaga" contains the text "the end!!!!")
=> Decided to keep both (slight sample diffs). Fact is that in the game (Chuck Rock 2) this music is a Protracker. I've renamed the non ripped one as "MOD.(Chuck Rock 2 DFC)googoo gaga"

"deja vu" > "rott !"
=> way too many differencies to trash either ones. Still renamed the first to "MOD.Anarchy-DejaVu-1" to highlight it's a converted file

"silicon-sector" = "digital innovation" = "kings of dawn" > "gloc-loader(fin.)"
=> "MOD.digital innovation" is gone. MOD.silicon-sector cannot be deleted as they differ in pattern data (more than a little).
MOD.gloc-loader(fin.) has to be kept as well as it's 30kb different and coming from a game.

"kayoto" = "(Premiere)game completed"
=> trashed NP3 converted one and renamed the other.

"system violation" ~ "mystikal!-vibes" (the position jump to the end in the first position has been removed, but the extended intro at the end is still present)
=>will do nothing for now. Discussion downwards.

"skeleton.menu2" = "qqoo9o"
=> trashed first one and renamed second one

"time-for-loving" > "time" (one of the samples has been blanked, and it's not even an unused sample!  Maybe he had to cut it down for something?)
=> MOD.time is gone. Absolutely identical save for the missing sample.

"big deal" = "wonderdog_preview"
=> latter trashed and first renamed to MOD.(Wonderdog preview DFC)big deal

"system controller" = "digitalinnovation 2"
=> the latter is gone

"hard-magic" = "seeing is believing_intro"
=> the latter is gone

"(Wolfchild)W4" = "w4"
"(Wolfchild)W5" = "w5" (you shouldn't need me to tell you this, really...)
=> w4 and w5 gone .... I know, I know

And, most puzzlingly...

"sunday best" (Spaceman & SuperNao) ~ "(Wonder Dog)title" (Spaceman)
...Apart from a few samples!
=> too many differences to trash either one.
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Axxy on September 11, 2012, 11:32:19
Quote
And, most puzzlingly...

"sunday best" (Spaceman & SuperNao) ~ "(Wonder Dog)title" (Spaceman)

...Apart from a few samples!

Only difference I can hear, is that hihat sample isn't played on the (Wonder Dog)title version, otherwise they sound identical.


Thankfully, my list seems to be a bit more robust when it comes to dupes or I have been a bit more lucky spotting them, but even I haven't been immune to finding dupes.

Mystikal Vibes & System Violation  (20k difference)
hard-magic & seeing is believing_intro  (20k difference)
big deal & wonderdog_preview  (1k difference)

Only 3 I have that have dupes for Spaceman.  Unless played back-to-back I would never had noticed the difference and the methods to locate dupes all would have failed on these 3. ie, name/filesize/contents...
I am going to remove seeing is believing_intro and wonderdog_preview, not sure about the other one, not sure which would have been the original release, possibly Mystikal Vibes (only cause the mod sounds like it's name).....

Nice spot ST!
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Asle on September 11, 2012, 18:58:23
begun fixing around and commented when done in previous entries.
To be added :

also in Spaceman dir
MOD.music~ = MOD.music
=> the latter was trashed and the former was renamed

MOD.bubba.level5 = MOD.bubba.level6
=> trashed the first and renamed (or will) the latter

MOD.(Wonder Dog)game complete = MOD.bubba.title
=> Keeping both (will renamed the latter)

MOD.fusion~ = MOD.fusion
=> trash latter and renamed first to MOD.nuke.fusion


About that:
Quote
"system violation" ~ "mystikal!-vibes" (the position jump to the end in the first position has been removed, but the extended intro at the end is still present)
"MOD.system violation.lng" is the same as "MOD.mystikal!-vibes". "MOD.system violation" is a converted rip for the same named demo.
I don't really know what to do about these, really.
I've attached all three files to this archive, if it can help decide. I've also added the respective ModInfo text files.

Ideas ?
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Axxy on September 11, 2012, 22:48:32
Quote
"MOD.system violation.lng" is the same as "MOD.mystikal!-vibes". "MOD.system violation" is a converted rip for the same named demo.
I don't really know what to do about these, really.
I've attached all three files to this archive, if it can help decide. I've also added the respective ModInfo text files.

Ideas ?

From a purist point of view, I'd say rename MOD.system violation.lng to MOD.mystikal!-vibes..  Only because if you actually rip it from the demo, that's what you would get.  I suppose it would then have to have Cosmos credited for the intro sfx like it does in the demo.

Mod.mystikal!-vibes could have something to denote its been edited and had the intro/sfx bypassed so it plays like a mod without the intro bit.

I'd delete the other one and leave the other 2 as is, at least you get the original rip and an edited version. Personally, I don't really want to hear the intro part, just the mod part.
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: swirlythingy on September 12, 2012, 14:40:58
MOD.bubba.level5 = MOD.bubba.level6
Whoopsy!  I can't believe I forgot that one...
MOD.(Wonder Dog)game complete = MOD.bubba.title
I didn't even know about that one!  Sure enough, they're identical.

This sort of thing is exactly why I chose to focus on Spaceman first, because he really was a terrible one for self-plagiarism.  How can you know which one was composed first?  And does it matter, really?  If someone was looking to download the complete Wonder Dog soundtrack, is it reasonable to expect them to know to look for "bubba.title"?

And that's why I think the AMP database needs a way to relate tracks to each other, to highlight tracks where you probably don't want to download both of them, but they're sufficiently different that you can't justify deleting either.  "mystikal!-vibes" and "system violation" would benefit from this as well.

Oh well, here's a couple from Subject (or Prophet, as he's known on AMP):

"private justice" > "alien inspiration" (slight sequence difference and truncated samples)
=> latter one is gone (converted rip)

"tp5'95" ~ "lifetime" (seems to be a later revision)

"guitarmag3" ~ "upstream.work" (unfinished, with different samples)

"gatecrashing" ~ "gatecrashing4" (dodgy rip, slight sequence difference)
=> latter one is gone (converted rip)

What does DFC mean, BTW?
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Axxy on September 12, 2012, 16:30:28
Quote
What does DFC mean, BTW?

Direct From Composer i think?
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Axxy on September 12, 2012, 17:10:29
MOD.elixir by marc <> MOD.elixir by marvin
=> latter is gone (was a P61A converted, wrongly credited to Marvin, like in the mag)

Mr. Death
MOD.ganja oracle <> MOD.oldschool combat 3
=> removed the first with the fancy title (files are otherwise identical)
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Asle on September 12, 2012, 19:43:33
This sort of thing is exactly why I chose to focus on Spaceman first, because he really was a terrible one for self-plagiarism.  How can you know which one was composed first?  And does it matter, really?  If someone was looking to download the complete Wonder Dog soundtrack, is it reasonable to expect them to know to look for "bubba.title"?

And that's why I think the AMP database needs a way to relate tracks to each other, to highlight tracks where you probably don't want to download both of them, but they're sufficiently different that you can't justify deleting either.  "mystikal!-vibes" and "system violation" would benefit from this as well.
For games, I think it's a no brainer. even identical files are kept, if only for historical/audit reasons, as, again, AMP aims to be a repository of some sort. So, we tend to keep everything :).

The relation between musics is an idea that will need major revamp of the DB. As is, there's simply no way to do that. We do have a 'comment' field available (although not yet displayed and scarcely fed) where that kind of link could go. It's an unsatisfactory solution but at least it's one. This, however, points to the serious lack of "admins" on AMP. I'm basically running things around here, with uneven help from others, when it comes to that kind of things.
I'm not complaining, mind. Just, as it is, there's not enough man power to do anything but upload some musics and fix a few mistakes from time to time.

Quote
What does DFC mean, BTW?

Direct From Composer i think?
Exactly :)
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Axxy on September 12, 2012, 20:06:57
Just lopped off 124 dupes with a quick scan across all mine.  :o

My spelling mostly, but a few so obvious it makes me laugh with despair...

One more...

Teis

MOD.fuckta flush remix <> MOD.psyko killer
(20120916) => latter one is gone. This is still a P61A converted :(
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Asle on September 12, 2012, 23:10:49
and off the oneliner:
another to verify: 19106 & 7958, 16290 & 46904, 60055 & 95555

(20121026) => 7958 gone. 60055 and 46904 are obvious rips and are marked as not downloadable
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: swirlythingy on September 15, 2012, 17:30:51
The relation between musics is an idea that will need major revamp of the DB. As is, there's simply no way to do that. We do have a 'comment' field available (although not yet displayed and scarcely fed) where that kind of link could go. It's an unsatisfactory solution but at least it's one. This, however, points to the serious lack of "admins" on AMP. I'm basically running things around here, with uneven help from others, when it comes to that kind of things.
The 'comment' field sounds ideal for the job.  And if you need help populating it, I'd be happy to step up... :)
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: swirlythingy on October 22, 2012, 21:17:09
Discovered yet another one from Spaceman:

"(Wolfchild)end" = "mainmag"

(20121125) => keeping both. Only some sample/loop sizes differences, agreed, but one from a game and the other from SD07.
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Anarkhya on November 23, 2012, 21:04:36
Hello!

un peu de nuke:
http://amp.dascene.net/analyzer2.php?idx=67351
vs
http://amp.dascene.net/analyzer2.php?idx=67147

already discussed upwards. nothing decided yet.

oops (:
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Axxy on November 24, 2012, 10:39:11
mod.ragarena.reremix

The Comrade (14272)
Caco (83431)

Just come across this one in a Vanish production (noisedisk #05).

I already have this one, but I have it credited to Caco & Vic. No idea when I got this one or where I got it from, most probably back when I had an Amiga.  Is this the only prod that this mod appears on?

(20121125) => 83431 gone. No matter what production it comes from, it's by The Comrade. Original from Annotation demo by Defcon 1
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Axxy on November 28, 2012, 23:25:33
Thanks for the reply to the last query post Asle....


Recently added mods by Killer. Is "mod.field emergency" the same as "mod.old school disco"?

http://amp.dascene.net/downmod.php?index=125884

http://amp.dascene.net/downmod.php?index=37975

(20121201) => Nope. Keeping both. Last 16 pattern order is different and some pattern data differ (not mentioning the sample text)
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Axxy on January 02, 2013, 13:45:34
2013-01-01 added

notion disaster  Barman  MOD 456Kb
Isn't this the same one as Notion Disaster by Estrayk & Evelred?

(20130105) => indeed. It's now non-downloadable with a comment pointing on the other song. I would bet this is a compo thing, making up a nick and entering a party :)
&

Added the same day

emergency by Ecstasy
Isn't this the same Emergency by SMT?

(20130105) => right. Damn, missed it. All right, I fear this one may pop up again and I've as such made it non-downloadable with a comment pointing on SMT's. It's a theft all right.

&

the real art by Ecstasy
Isn't this the real art by X-ceed (ex snoopy)?

(20130105) => also right. All right, same as above. Set as non-downloadable with a comment. Will double check all other Ecstasy stuff.
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Asle on January 26, 2013, 12:58:21
Hi

 I've found some more dupes on my own, but failed to report them. I think it's a mistake, but I lost track of those, unless I check the logs. Anyway, from now on, I'll report dupes I find on my own.
 And there's this 'MOD.luxury (jay)' that was stored twice. One for Jayhawk and one for Dor. Having found the demo it's coming from, helps a bit :)
-> Tropix by Dictators (http://kestra.exotica.org.uk/demo.php?id=26665)
 Dor's version is gone, as well as this author who was a coder from Finland :)

Sylvain
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Asle on February 15, 2013, 22:53:07
Found that the musics from Tex 11 was stored twice ... Removed the dupes now.
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Asle on March 13, 2013, 17:00:29
Another dupe found:
MOD.pointsofecho (http://amp.dascene.net/downmod.php?index=63782).
was stored thrice (!) and assign to Grubi, Mantronix and Scott.
this music comes from Brainstorm Megademo (http://kestra.exotica.org.uk/demo.php?id=637) and it's really by Scott (http://amp.dascene.net/detail.php?detail=modules&view=6486). Other versions have been trashed.
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Wally on May 24, 2013, 13:41:10
notion disaster  Barman  MOD 456Kb
Isn't this the same one as Notion Disaster by Estrayk & Evelred?
(20130105) => indeed. It's now non-downloadable with a comment pointing on the other song. I would bet this is a compo thing, making up a nick and entering a party :)

I can confirm the module is from E&E (as you already supposed). Barman (a real Capsule member) was attending M&S'97 and presented the song for the compo. No surprises here.
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Asle on May 25, 2013, 11:46:56
all right. I've removed the Barman entry and commented the E&E one with your confirmation.
Thanks for the input :)
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Asle on June 14, 2013, 19:17:59
For Maf,
MOD.sweet was a converted dupe of MOD.-+syndrome-land+- (http://amp.dascene.net/downmod.php?index=41845).
Now deleted.
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Asle on June 15, 2013, 10:16:17
the music S3M.Shimmi Shokkers was stored twice. One for El Pachuco, another for Psybelius.
It comes from Emotion MusicDisk by Epinicion (1994).
While the filelist.txt states it's by Psybelius, the internal text states it's by El Pachuco and it was ASM94 entry.
I chose to rely on the latter.

And from the same musicdisk, the music S3M.Starlight Concerto was also stored twice. Psybelius entry kept.
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: deus-ex on June 15, 2013, 13:59:10
I confirm. I just rechecked MODLAND and reviewed information found in the musicdisk distribution, fixed an error in the MODLAND database along the way.
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Axxy on June 21, 2013, 15:52:32
mod.in the forest

Greg (polish)
http://amp.dascene.net/downmod.php?index=107358

Greg (swiss)
...index=29767

(20130621) => Trashed the Swiss one. this music comes from a Polish game with clear credit, so ...
Title: Re: Dupes (maybe)
Post by: Asle on July 15, 2013, 14:47:21
MOD.dungeonquest was stored twice. One for Romeo Knight and one for Paradigm.
The music comes from this musicdisk (http://kestra.exotica.org.uk/demo.php?id=19908) where there's no doubt about authorship.
Paradigm's one trashed.